Ancestors of Christopher John Augustine Morry




Elizabeth McLean 
      Sex: F
Individual Information 
     Birth Date: in Toward, Argyll And Bute, Scotland 4667
    Christening: 
          Death: in Dunoon, Argyll And Bute, Scotland 4667
         Burial: 
 Cause of Death: 

Events

•  Occupation: Housewife.
Parents 
         Father: David McLean 4667
         Mother: Mary Yule 4667
Spouses and Children 
1. *John S. Paton 4667 
       Marriage: 14 Dec 1921 - Innellan, Argyll, Scotland 4667
       Children:
                1. Living
Living 
      Sex: F
Parents 
         Father: Living
         Mother: Living
Norman McLean 
      Sex: M
Individual Information 
     Birth Date: 
    Christening: 
          Death: 
         Burial: 
 Cause of Death:
Spouses and Children 
1. *Margaret Grant 4667 
       Marriage: 15 Jun 1788 - Forres, Moray, Scotland 4667
       Children:
                1. Alexander McLean
Living 
      Sex: M
Parents 
         Father: Living
         Mother: Living
Living 
      Sex: M
Parents 
         Father: 
         Mother: Living
Living 
      Sex: F
Parents 
         Father: 
         Mother: Living
Living 
      Sex: F
Spouses and Children 
1. Living
       Children:
                1. Living
                2. Living
Living 
      Sex: M
Spouses and Children 
1. *Daisy Wood 628 
       Marriage: 
       Children:
                1. Living
Living 
      Sex: F
Spouses and Children 
1. *Leslie Kennedy 14 
       Marriage: 
Marriage Notes 




Notes from David Stevens:


Registered Randwick 1929/16720.


       Children:
                1. Living
                2. Living
Catherine McLoughlin 
      Sex: F
AKA: Kate McLoughlin 14, Kate Phelan 6593
Individual Information 
     Birth Date: Cir 1798 - Tipperary, Munster, Ireland 188
    Christening: 
          Death: After 1852 - Killurane, Cloughjordan, Tipperary, Munster, Ireland 696,6594
         Burial: After 1852 - Cloughjordan, Tipperary, Munster, Ireland
 Cause of Death: 

Events

•  Residence: From Griffith's Valuation; Plot 1a in Modreeny Townland, Borrisokane, 1852, Modreeny, Tipperary, Munster, Ireland. This reference is to Catherine Whelan and that could be another person as Whelan was a very common name in the vicinity of Cloughjordan at that time.
Parents 
         Father: William McLoughlin 14
         Mother: Living
Spouses and Children 
1. *Thomas Phelan 697,698 
       Marriage: Cir 1818 - Cloughjordan, Tipperary, Munster, Ireland 188
Marriage Notes 




290424:

Note that the National Libarary of Ireland does have online access to RC parish registers for births and marriage but that for Cloughjordan (Killaloe Parish) these only cover the years from 1833 to 1880.

Prior to 1829, while a blind eye was turned to the formerly strict penal laws that prohibited Catholics from celebration Mass and the sacraments, the churches generally did not keep records for fear of reprisals by the Church of Ireland controlled government. Even after the end of the Penal Laws with Roman Catholic Relief Act (Emancipation) in 1829, many parishes were still somewhat informal and without permanent churches in which to carry out services and keep records. Thus the absence of records for this parish prior to 1833.


       Children:
                1. Living
                2. Roseanna Whelan
                3. Daniel Whelan
                4. James Phelan
                5. Julia Whelan
                6. Eliza Whelan
                7. Martin Phelan
                8. Thomas Edward Phelan
Notes
General:
These are David Stevens' notes for her:

Still alive 1851, ref emmigration record son James.

Griffith's Valuation shown as occupying a house in Modreeny (plot 1a), Modreeny leased from William H HEAD.

[CJM: This was under her married name, Catherine Whelan. However, there were undoubtedly other Catherine Whelans in this district at this time and it is not certain that this is she]

270714:

Thomas Edward Whelan and Catherine (Kate) McLoughlin are reported by David Stevens to be the parents of Eliza Whelan and her siblings. I await information from him to support this. They were reported to have lived in the Killurane area outside of Cloughjordan at the time of their deaths and were supposed to have been buried in the "parish churchyard" (which one?). I am awaiting further support for these conclusions as well.

Killurane is a townland associated with the Borrisokane Poor Law Union in the Barony of Lower Ormond and the parish of Modreeny in the old terminology for that time. The DED (District Electoral Division) for the 1901 and 1911 Censuses for this area is known as Mertonhall. Most of these geographic descriptors are no longer used today but it is important to know them in order to position people who lived back then.

Thomas is reported by David to have died prior to 1851 based upon immigration papers of his son James (which I have not seen). Kate was living at the time and it seems from Grittiths Valuation that she was still living at some time between then and 1864. The Valuation took place over a long period from 1848-1864 so it is not always possible to nail down the specific year in which a person's land was valued.It appears that the information pertaining to Catherine was gathered in 1852. Here is the information from Griffiths Valuation for Catherine Whelan:

Griffiths Valuation Record Information
Tenant
Family Name 1WHELAN
Forename 1CATHERINE

Landlord
Family Name 2HEAD
Forename 2WILLIAM H.

Location
CountyTIPPERARY, NORTH RIDING
BaronyORMOND, LOWER
UnionBORRISOKANE
ParishMODREENY
TownlandMODREENY
Place NameMODREENY
Place TypeTOWNLAND

Publication Details
Position on Page20
Printing Date1852
Act9&10
Sheet Number10,15
Map Reference1 A

Note that the location given is not Killurane but rather Modreeny. This townland is only slightly removed from Killurane to the south.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
070424:
I wrote to David Stevens seeking clarification of the sources for his information concerning the names of Jamie's Great Grandmother and 2nd Great Grandmother as well as the location of their burials. This is what he wrote back:

"Hi Christopher

Unfortunately I don't have references for all my data but will try and answer your questions.

Catherine (McLoughlin) Whelan was still alive in 1851 and lived in Modreeny (Griffith's Valuation). I believe she was buried in Modreeny. Mother's maiden name possibly Ely and they lived on Eminiska Townland.

Elizabeth (Whelan) Hough died 27 July 1903 at Knocknachree, Kilruane [CJM Note: Kilurane - there is a location known as Kilruane as well but that is not where they resided] and is also buried in Modreeny. Husband, died 1912, also buried in Modreeny.

We visited Grawn churchyard and couldn't identify any relevant headstones. Part of the church was still standing.

We tried to contact the C of I minister at Modreeny but received no response.

Hope the above is helpful.

Have you been in touch with Liz Whelan? She has done a lot of research on the Whelan family. She lives in Newbridge, Co. Kildare. Contact lizwhe@hotmail.com Her mother was Mary Hough (1936-2023).

Regards

David"

Obviously, without sources for his information, this all remains pretty speculative. However, it does seem likely that he obtained this information from Liz Whelan. It turns out she is Pat Hough of Lorrha's niece and if she obtained her information from her uncle it is more than likely correct. So I will write to her for confirmation.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

080424:
Here is the information from Elizabeth (LIz) Whelan herself:

From Elizabeth Whelan on 070423:

"Years ago I was shown by Pat [Hough] and my late mother Mary [Pat's sister] where Elizabeth Whelan and Dan Hough were buried in Modreeny COI. It was on the left hand side of the graveyard - opposite the middle of the church and marked by a bush. I have recently discovered, when doing a local graveyard marker surveys, that the marking of graves by a bush was quite common. My mother told me that the Whelan family grave was on the right hand side as you entered Modreeny but did not know exactly where. Sadly with very poor burial records for this time we have to rely on family lore. Headstones were few and far between and were costly. "

On this basis I am accepting this as fact but will note that it is family lore not supported by documentary evidence.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
280424 from David Stevens:

When James Phelan married Julia Barry on 2 September 1856 in St. Francis' Church, Melbourne his mother is recorded as Catherine McLoughlin. The record was later transferred to St. Patrick's Cathedral. I have a copy of a transcript of this marriage received from the Cathedral dated 14 February 1986. Julia shown as age 25, therefore probably born 1831. James age 34, therefore born 1822.

I wrote to David asking to please have a copy of the transcript and to know by whom it was made so that we could ascertain how reliable was the information. This was his response:

"Unfortunately, I do not have a good copy of the transcript. I tried to scan it the other day, but it was just a blur. Sorry we can't recall who gave us the document.

The copy I have says it is a "Record of Marriage". The marriage was conducted in the presence of Reverend Patrick Madden, a Catholic Priest.

It is signed by Rev. F. M. Chamberlain - Dean

The record was dated February 14, 1986."

Obviously, lacking even a copy of the transcript in any condition whatsoever, and David not recalling how he came by it, I cannot place much confidence in the information and will have to stress this wherever this information appears.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Today (May 1 2024) I downloaded a copy of the Civil Register of Marriage. It states:
No.: 877
Where and when Married: September 2nd 1856, St. Francis Church, Melbourne
Name and Surname of the Parties: James Phelan, Julia Barry
Bachelor or Spinster: If a Widower or Widow, Date of Decease of Previous Wife or Husband: Bachelor - Spinster
Children by Such Previous Marriage, Living, Dead: -- --
Birth Place: County Tipperary -- Count Tipperary

Rank or Profession: Labourer - Servant
Age: 34 - 25
Residence - Present - Usual: Melbourne - Melbourne [both]
Parents:
Names (Mother's Maiden Name):
Thomas Phelan - Catherine McLoughlin
Thomas Barry - Mary Cooper
Father's Rank or Profession:
Labourer
Shoe Maker

We hereby certify that we are members of the Catholic church (Insert Church, Religious Society, or Denomination, as the case may be)
Married in the Church of St. Francis, Melbourne

2567

This Marriage was solemnized between us ... ...
James Phelan
Julia her X mark Barry
According to the Rites of the Catholic Church

In the Presence of ...
Martin Minogue
Mary her x mark Barry

By (or before - [struck out]) me Patrick Madden Officiating Minister
or Deputy Registrar [struck out]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
May 20 2024
The parentage of Catherine McLoughlin remains a mystery. The name is extremely uncommon in this part of Tipperary and it seems very likely that they had only moved into the area in her lifetime or just previous to her birth. Several possibilities exist using variants of that surname but none of these possibilities can be proved. I have simply included here the names of William McLoughlin and his wife Honoria ? as one more likely possibility.

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